Curse

trashbin · May 18, 2005, 12:18 PM // 12:18

GW is the 1st MMORPG I'v played. I'v been on teams with a lot of abusive, arrogant, intolerant players, call them AAIPs. I've noticed these teams have very low success rates in the diffcult missions, such as those required for assension. The team rapidly fragments and disolves and is unable to learn from it's mistakes, since the AAIPs turn any attempt to discuss what went wrong into a discussion of their team members shortcomming, and their own superiority. Most of their messages degenerate into ----s at these times. It's going to take at least a few trys to get through these tough missions, a team needs to accept this and try to learn from what went wrong. I've reached the point where if I find myself on an AAIP dominated team any longer, I leave at the 1st oportunity, I won't enjoy the game, and if it's a tough mission we won't succeed.

My question is, do you think the difficulty of some of the missions, like those required for assension, is an attempt at an AAIP filter by the designers? I just got through assension, so I haven't gathered much data. However, it seems to me that an AAIP is going to have a much harder time getting through the assension quests do to their inability to work in a group effectivly. I know there were no such plyers on the teams I was in that completed the three assension quests. I would much rather have what some might call a less talented player who trys to work with the team and learn from their mistakes than AAIP superstar who can't.

What do you all think? I hope I'm right and this is the case, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing fewer of these folks and having to put up with less of their nonsense.

For those of you who find the assension missions hard, they are. However, my opinion is keep trying, but stay out of AAIP dominated groups, you'll get there with the right team.

If your one of those abusive folks, I suggest you think about your play style and try to keep your anger under control. It's only a game, are you really enjoying yourself when you get that wound up? Laugh at what happened, learn from it and move on. If you adopt the same behavior style in your real life, you are going to have a lot of real problems to deal with in life.

Principa Discordia · May 18, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Unfortunately, players like these are a fact of life in massively-multiplayer online games. It's sad, but there's nothing that can be done unless they do something nasty enough to warrant reporting them.

By the way, I moved this to the Riverside Inn forum. That's the forum for community discussions.

Have fun.

Zilm · May 18, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I was lucky enough to be in not one but two of these types of groups. First group lasted 20 min before people stared to quit the group. Here was the ad for the group,
"LGF for Thirsty River who can follow orders".
I should have known better than join this silly bunch.

So I went to the Thirsty River with henches. Then I got in a group for the Thirsty River Ascension quest. Now the leader for the most part was pretty good about calling targets and such, but he had three rangers in the group! I was amazed we made it to the last priest! Well, we didn't kill him in time and the aggros rezzed and we died and I've never seen so many ----s, @#%$#, ------------, and ----ys on the chat window since I started playing this game.
So, I know what your talking about. I was just laughing the whole time! Three rangers, wow what a leader!

Phantom Force · May 18, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Sadly it's true, every MMORPG you play in will have players of that caliber. It is something we unfortunately have to learn to deal with. No matter what you do, you could flame them, tell everyone who it is, etc. but they still find ways to succeed. In many games I've discovered 95% of the time in games where roles are important such as having a white mage they choose those roles. It ensures them that they will have a group. However in the last MMORPG I played I created a linkshell for FFXI and refused to allow players like that. We had a website and voting system to allow new members, and myself and the other leader made sure we kept certain players out of the linkshell and informed everyone of players like that. Really about all you can do. Create a good strong group of friends and hope you dont run into morons too often when you're not playing with good friends.

Oh Em Gee · May 18, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Force

However in the last MMORPG I played I created a linkshell for FFXI and refused to allow players like that. We had a website and voting system to allow new members, and myself and the other leader made sure we kept certain players out of the linkshell and informed everyone of players like that.

That's exactly what my LS had done in FFXI, as well. There were a lot of individuals who were discriminating some of the players, and we had booted them off and made sure they weren't reinvited by the new members. There were also many other reasons, but it's irrelevant and unnecessary to say. Sad, yes. But there isn't any other option to choose from. Aside from blacklisting.

P.S.
Mind if I asked what server were you on, Phantom? =)

bstripp · May 18, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilm

So, I know what your talking about. I was just laughing the whole time! Three rangers, wow what a leader!

Hey, three rangers who can interrupt can be a lifesaver on that mission. That last boss heals like no ones business. Interupting his heals is really key. I don't care the class, as long as there are players who know what they are doing.

It sounds like you fit into the subjects description

Straegen · May 18, 2005, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Get a really good monk on your team (one you can trust and knows how to keep people alive) then sign up the healer henchman. For the most part, a really good monk will keep you alive when players are doing very dumb things like pulling too much. Past that, I just ignore retarded comments. Just make sure you have one player that has res and knows their job is to stay alive at all costs in a mission.

Worked for me so far.

Phoenix Denfer · May 18, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

abusive, arrogant, intolerant players, call them AAIPs.

or "wanker" for short. ;-)

This mindset is not going to change and yes.. they will ruin your day. I don't think the missions you mention are as much a filter as the ability to create guilds so you can have like minded team mates to do these cooperative missions with.

That said, when I first started and had no clue what to do, I was picked up in a group of experienced players that helped me get through those first early wall missions and made it fun and exciting. I just wish that was more the rule and less the exception.

Maybe the GW's team needs a new "district" so you have American, European, Korean and "wanker." ;-)

1/2_Extreme · May 18, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Yup...thats reality. Every MMORPG has people like these, and we just have to deal to live with them.

adam.skinner · May 18, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

To be fair, there is the matter of perspective to consider. Are you a team member who isn't the assigned leader yet persists in wandering off? Are you not the target caller yet persist in attacking stray mobs?

I can easily see a good, solid leader seeking group members who can "follow orders" under these circumstances. Such a leader would not be arrogant, but simply an experienced player who knows his role and expects others to cooperate and know their roles as well.

I guess it depends on how they deal with such a situation, though. Are they abrasive? Is that what it takes to get some smacktard's attention? To many pickup groups suffer from the failing of too many chiefs, not enough indians. It is the job of the group leader to assign / ask for chiefs, and the other players to accept their direction for the time being and for the welfare and smooth operation of the group.

Grey Fox · May 18, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilm

I was lucky enough to be in not one but two of these types of groups. First group lasted 20 min before people stared to quit the group. Here was the ad for the group,
"LGF for Thirsty River who can follow orders".
I should have known better than join this silly bunch.

So I went to the Thirsty River with henches. Then I got in a group for the Thirsty River Ascension quest. Now the leader for the most part was pretty good about calling targets and such, but he had three rangers in the group! I was amazed we made it to the last priest! Well, we didn't kill him in time and the aggros rezzed and we died and I've never seen so many ----s, @#%$#, ------------, and ----ys on the chat window since I started playing this game.
So, I know what your talking about. I was just laughing the whole time! Three rangers, wow what a leader!

Wait a minute, just to get this straight, wre they saying those things to one another or just venting. cause I vent a lot, but I'm never, ever abusive to other players. And after venting I always try to chat about another strategie.
Am I an AAIP? Or am I just a nice guy with a anger manegment problem.

Oracle · May 18, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

There are lots of these types of players around. I would like to make generalistions about them, especially based on age, etc, but I won't.

I was in one last night (the one before Thunderhead Keep) and the 'leader' decided to ONLY SPEAK IN CAPS throughout the whole mission, which was his way of giving 'orders'. He kept coming out with stuff like "RUN!!!!!!! DON'T YOU ----ING MESS THIS UP FOR US!" and all that kind of pubescent trash talk.

I therefore hate PUGS (pick up groups) as a general rule, but I did do Tombs later on and met some decent people (rare, I know). Everything else I do with guildies and I tend to turn off local chat at both the outposts and in pvp.

For me, having a strong guild is key to my enjoyment of the game because I can ignore the dross that makes up a large part of the player-base.

Spooky · May 18, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

In regards to the difficulty of these missions as a "Choke Point," I can safely say that this is not the case. All of the story related missions are, and have been, toned down with PUGs in mind - so that the average player won't miss out on the bulk of the game. This is also why when people get into certain quests (Althea's Ashes, Villainy of Galrath) and expect more of the same, the difficulty suddenly feels very lopsided to them - as parts of the game that aren't 'required' they are thus made for the sake of the challenge, and completing them.

I give the level designers credit, because you can see the missions increasing in difficulty on a fairly even curve - I assume that the intention was to subtly coerce people into learning how to operate as a group (something that is mandatory for success in PvP) .. and while the intentions are noble, for some people, this is about as futile as teaching a donkey to foxtrot.

Some people have a very hard time understanding that this isn't Diablo 2, this isn't Counterstrike, where one person can go solo and 'win the game.' The problem becomes their arrogant insistance on being right - no matter how much patience you display, or how much tact you put into your words - these people are never at fault, it is always issues with the game design. Issues of which they are more than happy to be exceedingly vocal of. Taking it out on teammates is just another extension of that - which in turn upsets other people, who then have a retort, and things degenerate from there. It is a nasty downward spiral to the lowest common denominator.

There isn't anything you can really do to 'fix' these mindsets. One of the hardest lessons i've had to learn in life is that you can't change somebody who doesn't want to change themselves - people need to arrive at these conclusions and fix them on their own. In the meantime, I can only recommend finding people that you enjoy playing the game with. These forums serve for that dual purpose - we are more than questions, answers, and information - we are a hub of social gamers to interact on the levels that we aspire to ... it makes it very easy to find like-minded individuals, filtering out the otherwise (at times) trying process of doing it in game.

Straegen · May 18, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Speaking of difficult parts of the game and Althea's Ashes, I play with a group of friends and we all do the teamspeak thing. We have pretty much played all the MMO games out there and are competent adventurers, but difficult GW missions and quests show that some missions require a good team mixture. First time we did Althea's Ashes we used a w/mo, r/mo, ele/mes and a healer henchman. Sure glad the res point was right in front of the altar. Second time through same group, lower level and used a mo/mes, ele/mo and healer henchman... went through without a problem.

Sometimes it isn't the players, sometimes it is the chemistry of the builds. Although there are some horrible and annoying players like the ones that spam "I wish I could do PvP with only bots" or "I wish all the lamerz would leave" five thousand times in the arenas.

DrSLUGFly · May 18, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I doubt that the devs thought to themselves "if we do it like this it will make people behave kinder and cooperate." Probably they just realized, as most Kind Generous Tolerant Players (KGTP

)realize, that cooperation and strategy and planning are more fun. It gives you more of a rush when you know that if one gear was out of place everything would have failed.... but it didn't!

trashbin · May 18, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

It's often difficult to tell the difference between undirected venting and directed abuse. If you see a string of ranting on the screen, the person obviously took the time to type it in, rather than just mumbling to themselves. I think typing it on the keyboard is going to reduce your credibility with the group and other players at the very least. I've had more than one whisper conversation with other players about the uncontrolled venting/abuse from other players. Most of the people seem to find it humorous/offensive/imature but it's never something that makes them want to team with the person.

Darkest Dawn · May 18, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

It it truely unfortunate that there are peeps who will insist on being difficult. However, I have found out that if I try to reach out and help my guild members, especially the n00bs, then it can set a positive tone, and an example that is attractive. This is my pro-active way of dealing with this issue. Of course, there are no guarantees, but it really will improve the chances of building and maintaining a successful and exciting guild!

Jab · May 18, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Yeah I've gotten into some horrible groups, probably the main reason why it took me a week to ascend. One group I was leading, one guy pretty much told me to shut up, says I didn't know what I was doing, and some other things just because I wanted everyone to skip the cinema for elona's reach.

Other times people don't follow general ideas(focus fire concentrate on healer). Or this is my favorite, get a good deal into the mission and then because the boss didn't use an elite skill they wanted they just quit and leave us to fend for ourselves.

Anariel · May 18, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I put horrible people on ignore. My ignore list is now full and I have to start taking people off it. >< Increase ignore list length, please!

Zilm · May 18, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstripp

Hey, three rangers who can interrupt can be a lifesaver on that mission. That last boss heals like no ones business. Interupting his heals is really key. I don't care the class, as long as there are players who know what they are doing.

It sounds like you fit into the subjects description

Well, the 3 rangers didn't interrupt. We died, the WaMo (imagine that!)was the one with the scathing tounge.